The Public Forum of The M+G+R Foundation
PURPOSE
The purpose of this Public Forum is to publicly respond to correspondence that we may receive from time to time and which is of Universal interest in these very unsettling times.
We reserve the right to choose what questions to address and how to transcribe the question and/or
statement from the correspondence received. The identity of the correspondent will be kept
confidential except in the case of abusive correspondence which will then be referred to the
appropriate responsible entities.
Letters/Questions - Addressed on August 2005
From BB @
USA
[Published on August 31st - 2005]
Q. I am afraid that hurricane Katrina IS ONLY THE BEGINNING. Is it not amazing that we speak about the severity of natural disasters in terms
of DOLLARS, and not human lives??
Our ability to help ourselves and protect ourselves is strained beyond our ability to keep up. Our troops are deployed overseas when they are SO needed here right now, our economy is so strained with debt that it will not support another major disaster, (the U.S. has asked for overseas help... can you EVER remember us doing that in the past??), and leaders of foreign countries using the disaster to further undermine us politically...
New Orleans and the Gulf Coast was stabbed, deeply. It was as if they bled for 24 hours rejoicing at how they had yet again avoided catastrophe, only to look down 24 hours later and see that they were bleeding, and dying.
What will happen if we have ANOTHER major "natural disaster" this year?? I TRULY believe that this is the start of a series of events that will
eventually lead to our fall...
The enormity of THIS event is still unrealized. I agree with you that this is somehow a form of "Mercy in Action", although it is very difficult to see that right now.
BB
A. Right you are. As we keep repeating - the Apocalypse is on schedule. "All the ducks are being lined up" by satan and the enemies of the US are just waiting, while the US Administration manages to make more of them every day, just as the Vatican manages to destroy the little Faith left.
Time is really running out although even some of our readers think "Yes, yes but it will be later on - who knows? - maybe we can fix things up and God will relent."
Relent? Ask Noah's neighbors, ask the citizens of Sodom, Gomorra and Capernaum. Chat with the residents of Jerusalem who witnessed that no stone was left upon stone in their Holy Temple. Ask the dead of World War II.
What time is it? Its is
that time!
From Name Withheld @
USA [Published on August
27th - 2005 : Mary, Health of the Sick]
Q. Peace!!
I need to ask something of you. Can you please pray for my mother, I am not sure if she is caught in a snare or if what is going on in her life is somehow from God. I have read all you documents on spiritual dysfunction and still can't figure this out. She has given me her permission to ask you this, and we have both spoken to priests about this and have gotten no real answer. She says she will do whatever God Will's for her, whether she likes or dislikes the answer.
The background:
We have always had a most dysfunctional family. My step father is an
abusive alcoholic. He is not physically abusive anymore but was
previously, he is still verbally and emotionally abusive to not only her but to all. They have stayed married almost 40 years although they lead separate lives. He remains in the basement drinking himself to death. In this time my mother has tried to become holy and lead a good life. She prays the Rosary and many chaplets numerous times a day. She goes to confession and mass weekly. My sister is just like her father, and I believe she is what you called 'alcoholic behaving individual' because she doesn't drink, but is very controlling and selfish. I don't say this lightly. I have never met anyone so self centered as she is.
She is married to a wonderful man, Cyril, who has always adored her and did anything and all she asked. She doesn't allow him to speak to his family or ours unless she says and when she says. She has never loved him and only married him for security. She even threw him out a few years back for a few years to have a fling with another man and when he dumped her for another woman she took Cyril back. During the two years separation, he relied on my mother for moral support and they developed a deep friendship.
About a year ago, two different men tried to develop a relationship with my mother. She easily turned them down. She was content with her life, and didn't feel lonely because she felt close to the Lord, and was close to all of us, except this one sister.
previously, he is still verbally and emotionally abusive to not only her but to all. They have stayed married almost 40 years although they lead separate lives. He remains in the basement drinking himself to death. In this time my mother has tried to become holy and lead a good life. She prays the Rosary and many chaplets numerous times a day. She goes to confession and mass weekly. My sister is just like her father, and I believe she is what you called 'alcoholic behaving individual' because she doesn't drink, but is very controlling and selfish. I don't say this lightly. I have never met anyone so self centered as she is.
She is married to a wonderful man, Cyril, who has always adored her and did anything and all she asked. She doesn't allow him to speak to his family or ours unless she says and when she says. She has never loved him and only married him for security. She even threw him out a few years back for a few years to have a fling with another man and when he dumped her for another woman she took Cyril back. During the two years separation, he relied on my mother for moral support and they developed a deep friendship.
About a year ago, two different men tried to develop a relationship with my mother. She easily turned them down. She was content with her life, and didn't feel lonely because she felt close to the Lord, and was close to all of us, except this one sister.
The problem:
Around February, Cyril announced to my mother that he was in love with her
and not my sister. My mother initially laughed at this, and thought he was just transferring
his feelings for my sister, and seeing in her who he wished my sister was. He kept on
persisting and has helped my mother in many situations. Both financially, physically and
emotionally and after not being loved for so many years she has now fallen in love with him. This
was not a sexual
relationship at all, but I believe it has now become so.
I am explaining this all to you because I want you to realize my mother tried very hard not to let this happen. She would call me every night and I would talk with her and try to help her to have strength not to do this. I was so horrified about this situation, I couldn't even bring myself to tell anyone. I just kept praying for all of them. In the beginning of this my mother's prayer life started to falter. It was easy to advise her about this. She realized how bad that was letting her prayer life falter and turned back to God and begged for an answer on how to handle this.
She visits a shrine to the Blessed Mother a few times a week and asks for help and to let her know what to do. She also confesses this week after week and gets no real answer from the priests, other than if she has sex it is wrong.
She teeters back and forth as to whether this is right and wrong. She believes she was very happy being alone and that this couldn't have happened unless God allowed it. I also think that but perhaps more that, that this is some sort of test.
relationship at all, but I believe it has now become so.
I am explaining this all to you because I want you to realize my mother tried very hard not to let this happen. She would call me every night and I would talk with her and try to help her to have strength not to do this. I was so horrified about this situation, I couldn't even bring myself to tell anyone. I just kept praying for all of them. In the beginning of this my mother's prayer life started to falter. It was easy to advise her about this. She realized how bad that was letting her prayer life falter and turned back to God and begged for an answer on how to handle this.
She visits a shrine to the Blessed Mother a few times a week and asks for help and to let her know what to do. She also confesses this week after week and gets no real answer from the priests, other than if she has sex it is wrong.
She teeters back and forth as to whether this is right and wrong. She believes she was very happy being alone and that this couldn't have happened unless God allowed it. I also think that but perhaps more that, that this is some sort of test.
Neither of us are sure, and so since we have gotten no clear answer or help from any of the priests we have talked to, I asked her if it would be ok to write to you and ask for your advice and prayers. She agreed that you are very close to God and that whatever you advise, she will accept.
With much love, and hope for blessings, and peace, to you and yours.
Name Withheld
A. As we pointed out in our recent document About Sin, the seriousness of a sin can be measured by the level of damage it inflicts in God's Creation. Using this gage, the situation you have brought to our attention is only second to engaging in sexual activity with one's own child.
Yet, God's Goodness and Mercy shines through since both your mother and you sense that this is
wrong, regardless of the humanly justifiable conditions which brought this situation about. Your
family must be very special to God since satan only attacks so brutally those who are truly
special in the Eyes of God.
So that you may realize how damaging to God's Creation this situation is, even if your sister and step father would die, leaving Cyril and your mother free to marry somebody else, they could not marry each other nor sustain a romantic/sexual relationship without causing damages in God's Creation. (*)
Therefore, as painful as it may be in the short term, this relationship must come to an end at once. It would be best that you mother and Cyril do not even cross paths again to avoid pain or, worse, a relapse. We realize that there are grandchildren involved, nonetheless, if it requires that your mother do not see her grandchildren for several years to insure a clean cut with Cyril the children's well being, so be it.
Have her and him offer this pain for the conversion of the whole family, which, from your other correspondence and your own acknowledgment is very dysfunctional, yet Graced with this self awareness which is fundamental to any and all remedies; an awareness that few have.
It is obvious that your step father and your sister are the two points of "spiritual infection" in your family and through them satan is coming in and destroying all.
Thus offer any suffering that God may allow upon you for the following intention: For the Love of Jesus, the reparation of the offenses committed by your sister and step father against the Immaculate Heart of Mary and for their conversion. Ask any member of the family that is willing to do so, to join with you in this offering. The wording is tailor made for your family situation, but is based on the theology set forth in our document about Mankind's Participation in Its Own Redemption.
Remain steadfast and patient and know that there is nothing impossible for God - He will never test anyone in such severe manner unless He had some very special plans for the future of the individual being tested.
Remember, He loves your family very much - otherwise He would not have moved you so clearly to seek help.
DO NOT forget.... God does not judge man based on his level of sanctity but on how hard that individual has truly tried to sanctify him/herself.
You may be assured of our prayerful support.
_______________________________________________
(*) Our knowledge/awareness about these damages that we speak about are beyond human understanding and certainly the official teachings of any religion, thus, their reality is very concrete for us.
So that you may realize how damaging to God's Creation this situation is, even if your sister and step father would die, leaving Cyril and your mother free to marry somebody else, they could not marry each other nor sustain a romantic/sexual relationship without causing damages in God's Creation. (*)
Therefore, as painful as it may be in the short term, this relationship must come to an end at once. It would be best that you mother and Cyril do not even cross paths again to avoid pain or, worse, a relapse. We realize that there are grandchildren involved, nonetheless, if it requires that your mother do not see her grandchildren for several years to insure a clean cut with Cyril the children's well being, so be it.
Have her and him offer this pain for the conversion of the whole family, which, from your other correspondence and your own acknowledgment is very dysfunctional, yet Graced with this self awareness which is fundamental to any and all remedies; an awareness that few have.
It is obvious that your step father and your sister are the two points of "spiritual infection" in your family and through them satan is coming in and destroying all.
Thus offer any suffering that God may allow upon you for the following intention: For the Love of Jesus, the reparation of the offenses committed by your sister and step father against the Immaculate Heart of Mary and for their conversion. Ask any member of the family that is willing to do so, to join with you in this offering. The wording is tailor made for your family situation, but is based on the theology set forth in our document about Mankind's Participation in Its Own Redemption.
Remain steadfast and patient and know that there is nothing impossible for God - He will never test anyone in such severe manner unless He had some very special plans for the future of the individual being tested.
Remember, He loves your family very much - otherwise He would not have moved you so clearly to seek help.
DO NOT forget.... God does not judge man based on his level of sanctity but on how hard that individual has truly tried to sanctify him/herself.
You may be assured of our prayerful support.
_______________________________________________
(*) Our knowledge/awareness about these damages that we speak about are beyond human understanding and certainly the official teachings of any religion, thus, their reality is very concrete for us.
From Various @
Worldwide
[Published on August 22nd - 2005]
Q. I know it is often said, "For those who have eyes to see and ears to hear". I am ashamed to admit that I can't always "see or hear" what is meant to be obvious.
Various
A. We thank this particular writer who has given us the opportunity to answer a concern voiced by many.
The consolation to this concern lies in the phrase
"I can't
always". Even to those who have
Eyes to See and Ears to Hear, God unveils the information only to the extent that particular soul
is able to process it - spiritually and psychologically. That is - not everything will be clear at
one time for all.
Each one of us is in a very unique journey
with, and to, God, thus, just like a life saving antibiotic can kill if given in a dosage greater
than the individual can accept, an overdose of Divine Light would totally overwhelm
and harm a soul who what not ready for it
yet.
Therefore - as long as "sometimes", "often", "once in a while", etc. an individual Sees and Hears
what he/she must - all is working in perfect order with the
Divine Schedule.
From RD @
USA
[Published on August 18th - 2005]
Q. Many years ago I took my wife to have an abortion. I begged her not to go through the procedure, but to bring the fetus to full-term, all to
no avail. The more I pleaded, the more hysterical she became. I mentioned this event to a good priest at the time during a visit to Reconciliation.
Was I wrong to drive her to the clinic, and help her through the ordeal?
RD
A. Your
question reminds of the Biblical passage found in Luke 20 :
22. Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or
not?
Why do you ask us? If you
"...mentioned this event to a
good priest at the time during a visit to
Reconciliation" then that remains between the two of you or is it that you consider us
above that "good priest"? Nonetheless, we recommend you to review our document
on the avoidance of doctrinal errors.
From GMcE @
Ireland
[Published on August 12th - 2005]
Q. I have outlined below my own attempts to understand the recent disaster in the Indian Ocean and would be grateful for your comments in this and also your response to the questions I have posed below.
In trying to understand the reasoning behind such a striking and tragic event such as the recent Tsunami disaster, even when you explain as you do why God allows such suffering, it still seems that we are missing large amounts of information as to the “Spiritual” requirements for such an event.
All through the Bible it is clear that everything we do has a spiritual effect in addition to whatever effect we cause in the material world. One example comes from Exodus 20: 24-26, “An altar of earth you shall make for me, and upon it you shall sacrifice your sheep and your oxen. In whatever place I choose for the remembrance of my name I will come to you and bless you. If you make an alter of stone for me, do not build it of cut stone, for by putting a tool to it you desecrate it”.
It seems therefore that the activity of mankind upon the face of the earth can have a spiritually dysfunctional effect on nature itself. Assuming that nature itself conforms absolutely to the will of God since it follows the Laws given to it by God for it's own existence without any intervention of free will, any act of Mankind which is sinful to any degree i.e. departs from God's “active” will, causes a disturbance.
GMcE
A. Your
questions are many, yet important; therefore, we will address them in small segments like the one
above.
If we were forced by circumstances to answer all of the above with one single word - the word
would be "Yes". However, we will qualify that single word.
Firstly, Exodus 20: 24-26 is specifically addressing the construction of an altar. In addition, some Biblical translations speak of "tools" and better ones speak of "iron". The issue may be the "iron" as opposed to "tools" in general, as you may be able to discern from what we discuss below.
Secondly, that does not mean that all modifications made by man on materials found in nature are desecrating nature. We refer you to the instructions God gave Moses on how to build the Ark of the Covenant [Exodus 25, 26 and 27], the tent to contain it, the design of the priestly vestments [Exodus 28] , etc., etc.
However, withholding any and all explanations about the "why" of this statement: The utilization of an iron tool in shaping a stone for an altar may make sense to m de P.
You state: "It seems therefore that the activity of mankind upon the face of the earth can have a spiritually dysfunctional effect on nature itself."
The answer is: "Yes, depending on the activity." God is perfect Love and Perfect Harmony. When we act in a manner that lacks harmony (which is all that is not done in "Good Will" which, in turn may be explained as all that is done "in the Spirit of Goodness and Love - which is the Spirit of God"), we wreak disharmony around us which, like with the physical law that "every action causes a reaction", will trigger a mechanism that will seek to restore the harmony lost.
You may graphically get a better idea of this mechanism if you carefully study the document The Spiritual World and How it Influences Our Behavior (diagram included).
As you may readily see, all of the above would be rather difficult to explain even to, and be understood by, some of the more enlightened Faithful - thus it is better to teach to simply seek an intimate union with God because, as that is slowly achieved, non harmonious behavior automatically begins to disappear from our lives. Therefore, let us strive to "Be you therefore perfect, as also your Heavenly Father is perfect." [Matthew 5:48]
Firstly, Exodus 20: 24-26 is specifically addressing the construction of an altar. In addition, some Biblical translations speak of "tools" and better ones speak of "iron". The issue may be the "iron" as opposed to "tools" in general, as you may be able to discern from what we discuss below.
Secondly, that does not mean that all modifications made by man on materials found in nature are desecrating nature. We refer you to the instructions God gave Moses on how to build the Ark of the Covenant [Exodus 25, 26 and 27], the tent to contain it, the design of the priestly vestments [Exodus 28] , etc., etc.
However, withholding any and all explanations about the "why" of this statement: The utilization of an iron tool in shaping a stone for an altar may make sense to m de P.
You state: "It seems therefore that the activity of mankind upon the face of the earth can have a spiritually dysfunctional effect on nature itself."
The answer is: "Yes, depending on the activity." God is perfect Love and Perfect Harmony. When we act in a manner that lacks harmony (which is all that is not done in "Good Will" which, in turn may be explained as all that is done "in the Spirit of Goodness and Love - which is the Spirit of God"), we wreak disharmony around us which, like with the physical law that "every action causes a reaction", will trigger a mechanism that will seek to restore the harmony lost.
You may graphically get a better idea of this mechanism if you carefully study the document The Spiritual World and How it Influences Our Behavior (diagram included).
As you may readily see, all of the above would be rather difficult to explain even to, and be understood by, some of the more enlightened Faithful - thus it is better to teach to simply seek an intimate union with God because, as that is slowly achieved, non harmonious behavior automatically begins to disappear from our lives. Therefore, let us strive to "Be you therefore perfect, as also your Heavenly Father is perfect." [Matthew 5:48]
One word of caution for those who may miss the powerful message that we are delivering through
quoting Matthew 5:48: Although some of the terms utilized in the above response may have a New Age
sound, be assured that our answer could not be further from such movement as
we have amply illustrated elsewhere.
From R & K @
USA
[Published on August 9th - 2005]
Q. Would you please talk a little about fasting.
Growing up, we only gave up meat on Fridays for Lent, which I understand is called abstinence. I never learned anything about fasting from family, church or Catholic school.
I know that the Bible says don't let people know you are fasting or taking any penance, and that, I understand.
I looked on the on-line Catholic Encyclopedia and assorted other web sites, but I am confused about what is allowed. Some sites say only bread and water, beverages. Others say a mid-day meal.
Do you fast, and do you know what is pleasing to God as a fast? I pray a little every day, it is small in comparison to the hours in the day, I know. I try to work on more as I am able. I was thinking of fasting to supplement my prayers but I need better information.
Thank you, as always, for your time and effort. You are leading even some pretty bad sinners back to God, bit by bit, be assured.
R & K
A. Fasting is one of those misunderstood "tools" to cooperate with God in the redemption of mankind. "Misunderstood" because it has also been used to manipulate the Faithful.
Basically, fasting is to give up, for a holy purpose - but NOT
to bargain with God - any little "flesh
pleasure". Of course - when we say "flesh" all have been carefully conditioned to only think of
"sex" - wrong! Flesh pleasure is a pleasure associated with the human condition - body related as
opposed to soul related - yes, it includes sexual pleasure but not to the exclusion of all
else.
It is always good to have some set fasting program to avoid, through our involvement
in the world, abandoning it at the first opportunity. We shall give you an example - as just that
- an example - of what m de P has done over the years. Then, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit,
each one should adjust it to his/her individual circumstances. Always keeping in mind that satan
is lurking around to utilize our desire to serve God to harm ourselves.
During the late eighties m de P began to fast on water, bread and black coffee on Wednesdays and Fridays, while keeping a full schedule of work and liturgical related schedule. For this full work and liturgical related schedule [spanning from 6:30 AM to sometimes Midnight] is where the black coffee came in - through a mechanism which we will not go into now, black coffee increases the utilization of body stored sugars and fat as fuel to keep the body going at full work load with a substantial reduction of food intake.
During the late eighties m de P began to fast on water, bread and black coffee on Wednesdays and Fridays, while keeping a full schedule of work and liturgical related schedule. For this full work and liturgical related schedule [spanning from 6:30 AM to sometimes Midnight] is where the black coffee came in - through a mechanism which we will not go into now, black coffee increases the utilization of body stored sugars and fat as fuel to keep the body going at full work load with a substantial reduction of food intake.
Throughout the rest of the week, at random, he would give up little pleasures here and there with
the intention: "For love of you, Jesus, in reparation for the
offenses committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the conversion of poor
sinners." A chocolate ice cream here, a bag of peanuts there, eat something that he
disliked, replace a very tasty dinner with a boiled potatoes and can of tuna dinner, skip sugar in
coffee, walk instead of drive, do something that has been delayed because it was unpleasant,
etc.
In the last two to three years, some adjustments had to be made because of drop of metabolic efficiency with the years going by. Now on Wednesdays and Fridays he has something very simple to eat in the evenings, however, this is loosely exchanged throughout those two days and the rest of the week with other fasting or equivalent sacrifices. For example, he may have been waiting to go to a certain place because they serve his favorite "this" or "that". Providence has it that he eventually gets there, then, once there, he will pass on whatever it was that he wanted so much from there.
Warnings about satan tricks:
Perhaps the above will give the Faithful an idea of what fasting is all about and he/she can work out a suitable program to assist God in the redemption of mankind.
One consideration that is most important when we desire to offer God any kind of sacrifice, is what God really wants above all. He told us first through the prophet Isaiah [Chapter 1] , then in person, for Jesus said:
In the last two to three years, some adjustments had to be made because of drop of metabolic efficiency with the years going by. Now on Wednesdays and Fridays he has something very simple to eat in the evenings, however, this is loosely exchanged throughout those two days and the rest of the week with other fasting or equivalent sacrifices. For example, he may have been waiting to go to a certain place because they serve his favorite "this" or "that". Providence has it that he eventually gets there, then, once there, he will pass on whatever it was that he wanted so much from there.
Warnings about satan tricks:
(1) One day, back in the eighties, m de P decided that if
bread and water and black coffee constituted good fasting, he was going to do better and just take
water and keep the full schedule of responsibilities. On the fourth of fifth time, at about 9 PM
his heart went into fibrillation. He did not know what was wrong or what to do... but God did. He
was immediately moved to locate some fructose in the kitchen, dissolved a teaspoon in a glass
water and drank it. Shortly the heart returned to its normal and harmonious rhythm. Lesson
learned! Back to bread, water and black coffee!
(2) Fast two days and eat poorly the rest of the week - even when the food was available (which was not always the case) - then keep a backbreaking physical schedule (between 1992 and 1996 he walked a little under 10,000 miles). Eventually the body, quite logically, starts to break down.
(2) Fast two days and eat poorly the rest of the week - even when the food was available (which was not always the case) - then keep a backbreaking physical schedule (between 1992 and 1996 he walked a little under 10,000 miles). Eventually the body, quite logically, starts to break down.
Perhaps the above will give the Faithful an idea of what fasting is all about and he/she can work out a suitable program to assist God in the redemption of mankind.
One consideration that is most important when we desire to offer God any kind of sacrifice, is what God really wants above all. He told us first through the prophet Isaiah [Chapter 1] , then in person, for Jesus said:
"It is not the healthy who need the doctor, but the sick. Go and
learn the meaning of the words: Mercy is what pleases
me, not sacrifice. And indeed I came to call not the upright, but sinners."
[Matthew 9:12-13]
Your closing words Glorify God, Whom we strive to serve. Just think what the world would be like
today if those who were entrusted to bring the flock back home had fulfilled their Divinely
appointed task instead of self promoting themselves as the Temple Masters of Jesus' time.
From Initials Withheld @ USA [Published on August 3rd - 2005]
Note: We had issued a mailing to a group of devotees of the Tridentine Mass wherein it was stated that all the ills of the Roman Catholic Church cannot be blamed on the suppression of the Tridentine Mass and the subsequent introduction of the Novus Ordo Mass. After all, nearly a thousand years ago Our Lord requested to Francis of Assisi to repair His Church which was already in shambles. Following is the reduced version of one of the recipients wrote back.
Q. You claim that the Latin mass or pre vatican II won't fix anything. You claim that by Mary coming in 1917 that it was bad then. You are correct, however it wasn't as bad as all THIS.
She has appeared down through the history of the Church. It all did not happen over night. The Blessed Mother has seen it building to this point. She was attempting a warning. Yes I know about opus dei. I could careless about it. Yes if they are the pied piper I wont follow them either. Irreverence at mass is at a all time high. I want the reverence that I used to know put back.
Not the screaming kids( I have six by the way), I want music that lifts my heart to God, Not condemning the old lady who is so bad at singing it makes one cringe, I am tired of men - priest asking me to feed the faithful when I don't have enough energy to feed my own kids. Get up you priest and do your job.
I want all the symbolism put back. I want the tradition put back. Why did 'nt we stop them in the 60's? We believed in our clergy. We BELIEVED in the safety of God, and Jesus did hold the terror back.
Do I believe that the Latin mass will fix things? I have no idea, but I know it cant be worse than what we are experiencing now. I think the latin mass
has more reverence. I was there. I lived it. I saw what the nuns and priest did and are doing.
No sir you are spouting words to take our mind off of the mass. I will never make that mistake again. My mind and soul are with my Lord. I will never follow the pied piper again. Why is it (latin mass) fought so hard? Because the key to good order is doing things as we are told and not changing them for the whims of MEN and feminists. I am praying for all. I have done what Mary asked me to do and I will trust that in the END She will be the Winner.
Initials Withheld
A. Trying to reach to the core of your concern we have concluded that "the bottom line" of your complaint is: "Irreverence at mass is at a all time high. I want the reverence that I used to know put back." and "I want all the symbolism put back. I want the tradition put back."
We could not agree with you more. In many places the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass has become a Six
Ring Circus wherein even some "priests" dare to change the Creed, the Eucharistic Prayers and
whatever else they feel like changing.
Our point is that the problem was not the absence of the Tridentine Mass, the problem is that the Faith was built on sandy foundations and when the tide of evil came all began to crumble - Clergy and Laity.
Since you brought up the Marian Apparitions, we want to remind you of part of the statements of Our Lady of La Salette (1) ca. 1846 (now being conveniently denied):
Our point is that the problem was not the absence of the Tridentine Mass, the problem is that the Faith was built on sandy foundations and when the tide of evil came all began to crumble - Clergy and Laity.
Since you brought up the Marian Apparitions, we want to remind you of part of the statements of Our Lady of La Salette (1) ca. 1846 (now being conveniently denied):
""The priests, ministers of my Son, the priests, by their wicked lives, by their irreverence and their impiety in the celebration of the holy mysteries, by their love of money, their love of honors and pleasures, the priests have become cesspools of impurity. Yes, the priests are asking for vengeance, and vengeance is hanging over their heads. Woe to the priests and to those dedicated to God who by their unfaithfulness and their wicked lives are crucifying my son again! The sins of those dedicated to God cry out towards Heaven and call for vengeance, and now vengeance is at their door, for there is no one left to beg mercy and forgiveness for the people. There are no more generous souls, there is no one left worthy of offering a stainless sacrifice to the Eternal God for the sake of the world. "
and
""The seasons will be altered, the earth will produce nothing but bad fruit, the stars will lose their regular motion, the moon will only reflect a faint reddish glow. Water and fire will give the earth's globe convulsions and terrible earthquakes which will swallow up mountains, cities.... Rome will lose the faith and become the seat of the Antichrist. "
The above was delivered by Mary 120 years before
the Novus Ordo Mass!
Now, back to the irreverence and lack of symbolism.... One problem the Faithful has, from our perspective, is their liturgical provincialism - they gage that what is going on in their little local Parish as what is going on the Universal Church. Wrong!
Most Novus Ordo Mass we have attended - and served in - were reverent and full of symbolism. At a time m de P used to participate every Sunday in a Novus Ordo Mass - all in Latin - with the music being strictly Gregorian Chants rendered by an all male choir - Holiness and silence could be cut with a knife in spite of the many children present.
In many others, where they have been conducted in English, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, etc. we also found reverence and holiness. One of the holiest Masses m de P ever participated in was a Novus Order Mass offered by the priests leading a group from the Czech Republic who traveled through Europe for days in a non A/C bus to honor Our Lady of Fátima. m de P did not understand a word they spoke, but true Holiness permeated the chapel in a totally supernatural manner.
M de P always made a point to avoid Masses at any Parish where the Mass resembled a Texas Hoe Down or where, while the priests sat comfortably, the laity, may times in low cut skin-tight dresses, seemed to be performing most of the duties which should have been conducted by the priests or deacons.
On the other hand, the atmosphere during certain Masses offered whether at the Monastery of Jasna Gora (Poland), where the famous icon of Our Lady of Czestochowa is kept, or the Basilica of St. Peter (2) or the prophetic Basilica of St. John Lateran (3), or the Sanctuary of Lourdes - is also that of the Six Ring Circus, while in others, for example, at the Lourdes Grotto (outdoors) on an icy and rainy 25th of March mass at 6:30 A.M. Holiness pervaded everywhere - yet it WAS NOT a Tridentine Mass.
We hope and pray that we have made our point clear for your benefit and that of those who also long for the Tridentine Mass.
However, a word of caution is in order: If your Faith (4) rests on the Tridentine Mass you may want to reevaluate that Faith because the Tridentine Mass - any Mass - is just a vehicle for man to reach God and when a Mass format becomes an end to itself, we have fallen into idolatry (5) disguised as holiness and piety.
Now, back to the irreverence and lack of symbolism.... One problem the Faithful has, from our perspective, is their liturgical provincialism - they gage that what is going on in their little local Parish as what is going on the Universal Church. Wrong!
Most Novus Ordo Mass we have attended - and served in - were reverent and full of symbolism. At a time m de P used to participate every Sunday in a Novus Ordo Mass - all in Latin - with the music being strictly Gregorian Chants rendered by an all male choir - Holiness and silence could be cut with a knife in spite of the many children present.
In many others, where they have been conducted in English, Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, French, etc. we also found reverence and holiness. One of the holiest Masses m de P ever participated in was a Novus Order Mass offered by the priests leading a group from the Czech Republic who traveled through Europe for days in a non A/C bus to honor Our Lady of Fátima. m de P did not understand a word they spoke, but true Holiness permeated the chapel in a totally supernatural manner.
M de P always made a point to avoid Masses at any Parish where the Mass resembled a Texas Hoe Down or where, while the priests sat comfortably, the laity, may times in low cut skin-tight dresses, seemed to be performing most of the duties which should have been conducted by the priests or deacons.
On the other hand, the atmosphere during certain Masses offered whether at the Monastery of Jasna Gora (Poland), where the famous icon of Our Lady of Czestochowa is kept, or the Basilica of St. Peter (2) or the prophetic Basilica of St. John Lateran (3), or the Sanctuary of Lourdes - is also that of the Six Ring Circus, while in others, for example, at the Lourdes Grotto (outdoors) on an icy and rainy 25th of March mass at 6:30 A.M. Holiness pervaded everywhere - yet it WAS NOT a Tridentine Mass.
We hope and pray that we have made our point clear for your benefit and that of those who also long for the Tridentine Mass.
However, a word of caution is in order: If your Faith (4) rests on the Tridentine Mass you may want to reevaluate that Faith because the Tridentine Mass - any Mass - is just a vehicle for man to reach God and when a Mass format becomes an end to itself, we have fallen into idolatry (5) disguised as holiness and piety.
______________________________________
(1) Full Message
of La Salette
(2) A tour of the "Holiness" found in Rome and Conclave Time!
(3) A mute testimony to what lies behind your valid complaints and to the "sandy foundations" we made reference to.
(4) Foundation of Faith
(5) An example of Idolatry disguised as Archeological Interest
(2) A tour of the "Holiness" found in Rome and Conclave Time!
(3) A mute testimony to what lies behind your valid complaints and to the "sandy foundations" we made reference to.
(4) Foundation of Faith
(5) An example of Idolatry disguised as Archeological Interest
From MOK @
Canada
[Published on July 25th - 2005]
Q. A few days ago I tried to notify you of my ISP change and consequently e-mail address change as well. Since then I had no messages from you whatsoever. I do wish to be on your member list.
Thank you for your help.
MOK
A. We have received all your mailings and the change was made after the first notice was received from you. We have mailed you directly several times regarding this issue but it seems that your server is not delivering our mail to you.
We suggest to you, and anyone else that may have this
problem, to contact their ISP/Server because it is up to them to make it possible.
Public Forum - July 2005 - Edition Files
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